This American Doesn't Back Racial Profiling
At Last Best Place Mike makes an argument in support of racial profiling. I have read much of what Mike has to say, often I agree but this time I don't. I wanted to take this chance to respectfully refute his claims.
Are they (Arabs) or are they not the racial group most responsible for the indiscriminate murder of innocent Americans and others in the past 10+ years?
I think that some of the folks at What's White in Montana would make that same claim about inner city African-American gang members. Additionally, that same statement could come from civilians in Iraq, just reverse the words Arabs and Americans. Where does it stop?
Yes, of course I realize that under certain circumstances that profiling might not work within the confines of the argument presented above. Such instances might involve an American or Western convert to Islam...
The argument has been made many times that the terrorist will adapt in this manner and in that case racial profiling will actually detract from finding the real terrorist. Mike even makes the argument that the American public has finally become ceasingly tired of the indiscriminate searching of old ladies bras and undergarments. If we come to rely on racial profiling, then the next attack will come in an old ladies bra.
What Mike doesn't address is the better alternative to racial profiling, behavior profiling. Many experts suggest that this is a better method of dealing with the threat of terrorism. This omission and the tone of this and previous posts makes me wonder if it is motivated by his concern of airline safety or his feelings towards Arabs.
9 comments:
Mike,
That was a pretty sad attack. I approached your argument with respect, you did not offer me the same courtesy. So be it.
real-live Persian has signing privileges on my company's accounts
Are you making the 'token' argument here?
Iraqis are killing Iraqis at a rate far surpassing that of American military actions.
You can't have your argument both ways buddy. Then you must admit that Americans are killing Americans at a rate far surpassing any terrorist actions.
Given the social dynamics of Arab culture, which no doubt you're intimately familiar with, an "old Arab woman" would not be trusted to carry out a suicide attack...
Oh, I think that you need to remember back a few months to the palestinian lady that was caught with bomb strapped to her.
f you've actually read what I've written on the subject previously you might have been aware that I don't subscribe to any particular "feelings towards Arabs."
Are you sure about that? I am not going to do you the disservice of looking back through your presious posts, I would just say that maybe you should. Pay attention to how you address Islam. I never set out to call you a racist, my intentions were to say that I disagree with the thoughts and tones of your post.
Seriously, dismissive attitudes on what more than a plurality of Americans agree is a useful tool to help prevent the indiscrimate murder of Americans and other Westerners makes be ashamed to be a member of the same political party as you.
I could say the same about one that would follow an ineffective course of action when more effective actions are being ignored becuase that leads to the very edge of a slippery slope.
Racial profiling does not work.
Airport security currently does NOT indiscriminately search passengers. They are using background/behavior profiling.
Mike, you yourself noted that El Al prefers behavior profiling over racial/ethnic profiling. Why should American airlines differ from El Al, which has a fantastic record for preventing hijacking?
Since racial profiling isn't a "useful tool to help prevent indiscriminate murder of Americans," -- at least according to the Attorney General and the nation's security agencies -- instituting racial profiling will result only in stirring up animosity between white and Arab Americans. People are already mistakenly equating terror with skin color and religion; why fuel the antagonism?
Racial profiling does not work.
Airline security does not indiscriminately search passengers.
Mike’s correct in saying that El Al uses behavior profiling and background checks, not racial profiling. Considering El Al’s record, I cannot fathom why Mike wants American airports and airlines to instead profile using race.
The Attorney General and the security agencies reject racial profiling. They recognize that it’s not a “useful tool” in preventing terror, but actually a detriment to preventing terror. Stirring up ethnic and religious tensions at this time would be dumb; it’s one of the reasons we’re losing the Iraq war. The war on terror should rely on police action and diplomacy. We need to win the war of ideas. Racial profiling ensures we lose.
Perhaps I’m wrong. Perhaps we should use racial profiling. Perhaps we should require American Muslims to sew yellow crescents to their armsleeves.
From where I'm sitting, comparing my argument to what exists in places at WRiM is neither respectful or courteous.
I might have framed that statement better, I was trying to show you the slippery slope argument actually can apply here. However, now that you have said it, it is only different to you becuase you are viewing it from your perspective and seem to be unaware of how it looks to an outside viewer.
I may have more empirical life experience's with people from different cultures that you
Undeterminable. I have lived in many parts of this country and experienced many cultures. I have had close friends of Iranian, Jewish, Asian descent. Additionally, I am quiet well traveled. I will make no asumptions of your experience.
and no former fundamentalist Christian guilt over previouly held attitudes.
You yourself have claimed to have had an experience with islamic terrorism that left you emotionally scarred to the point where you sought therapy. That has biased you beyond doubt more than the fact that I occasionally went to a fundamentalist church when I was young yet can not recall a single remark about Arabs. Most of my beef was about anti-gay rhetoric.
The FACT remains that Islam, as a religion, is just not compatible with the West.
This has slipped way down the slippery slope my friend. Can you really not see this? Think about it. I don't do this lightly, but I will do it now for your statement has warranted it.
Hitler did not think that the Jews were compatible with Germany or Europe. Indeed, he said
Today the Jewish question is no longer a German problem, but a European one.
from Volk
I don't think you are a Hitler. I am just saying that statement makes it obvious to me that you are approaching this in a race/religeon bigoted manner.
I think that it is good to end this conversation with agreement:
The BEST we can hope for is to eventually wean ourselves off the teet of their petroleum and simply isolate the entire region to the paradigm of suffering caused by THEIR failure to be part of the modern world.
I agree 100%. Thank you for your thoughts on this.
Know that my stance on disgreements of these types is that they do not reflect my repect for you or your right to hold such positions. Religeous based discussions leave me feeling ill and despirited, but I am glad that we were able to exchange views on this.
Rock on.
It's because my children are Jewish that I refuse to accept the idea of profiling based on ethnicity or race or religion. Right now we're talking about Muslims; what's to say in thirty years, it's not Jews who'll get profiled? How would you feel if all Jews were pulled from the lines at airports and searched while the goyim looked on as they filed on to the plane?
I don't want it for my children, or the children of Muslims, either.
Shane - you're feeding Mike's paranoia. Want to know who is doing the indiscriminate killing in the mideast? Look to Tel Aviv. Want to know which civilians are dying? Hint - their skin is a tad darker. Want to know who is blowing up buildings, roads, sewage treatment plants, water plants, electrical grids, hotels, neighborhoods, schools and hopsitals? (Hint - Mike says they are peace loving.) Want to know who torutres and disappears people? Hint - they are armed by us.
Mike's a Johnny one-note, oblivious and blinded, hateful of Arabs, Persians, Lebanese. He is disrespectful of Islam in the extreme, yet demanding thatthe religion of his own "peace loving people be afforded full quarter.
You've just had one little go-round with him, and he was somewhat civil. Believe me, he gets worse.
Mark T,
I would ask this:
How many American's have been killed by terrorism in the last 10 years? Mulitply that by 10 and you wont even come close to the damage Meth has done. I think we are off on a tangent.
Non-sequitur!
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